"Be deeply obsessed about the problem you're trying to solve" | Phani Kishan, Co-Founder, Swiggy

Episode Summary

In our 16th episode of the Best Place to Build Podcast, Amrut interviews Phani Kishan, Co-founder of Swiggy, who shares his journey from IIT Madras and IIM Calcutta to becoming a key figure in India's food tech revolution. Phani offers valuable insights into Swiggy's growth story, innovation frameworks, company values, and how they've built one of India's most successful startups. The conversation explores everything from product development strategies to handling competition and the importance of first principles thinking in business.

Guest Bio

Phani Kishan, co-founder, Swiggy, has an impressive educational background, having studied Computer Science at IIT Madras before completing his education at IIM Calcutta. Prior to his journey with Swiggy, he worked as a consultant at BCG.

Amrut’s Comment

I’ve had the privilege of following Phani’s journey from pretty early, and we’ve known each other for a while. Even then, it was lucky for us that he agreed to come - I’m grateful to him and the Swiggy PR team for working with us on this. Also, a side story is that I ran a food delivery startup from 2011 to 2013, before Swiggy started. It was incredibly hard, and I hated it. Because of that experience, I’ve always respected Swiggy (and the others in this space) for pulling off what they have. 

Key Highlights

• [00:03:49] Phani's Journey to Swiggy after IIT Madras and IIM Calcutta
• [00:19:02] Understanding Co-Foundership
• [00:21:45] High-agency individuals are crucial to founders building companies
• [00:32:13] Swiggy's Growth Story: Focus on core problems before diversification was a key strategy
• [00:26:49] Company Values and Culture: Humility, honesty, and curiosity
• [00:24:12], [00:24:27] Customer obsession drives decision-making throughout the organization
• [00:29:05] Product Development Framework: Customer love, Large market potential, Proof points of profitability, Scale
• [00:36:04] Competition and Innovation: The rise of 10-minute delivery and how Swiggy adapted
• [00:40:35] Marketing Strategy: Swiggy's approach to memorable marketing campaigns
• [00:48:37] First Principles Thinking
• [00:55:21] Swiggy's Impact
• [01:05:04], [01:05:21] Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs and Students

Institutions mentioned:

• [00:01:39] IIT Madras
• [00:03:59] IIM Calcutta (IIMCal)
• [00:10:31] BCG (Boston Consulting Group)

People mentioned:

• [00:00:00] Phani Kishan, Co-founder of Swiggy
• [00:11:00] Professor Ravindran, Phani's BTP professor at IIT Madras (also see Prof. Ravindran’s podcast episode)
• [00:12:52] Sri Harsha, CEO and Founder of Swiggy
• [00:14:26] Nandan, Co-founder of Swiggy 
• [00:16:19] Binny Bansal, Co-founder of Flipkart 
• [00:16:49] Roger Bannister’s four-minute mile is an example of shattering perceived limitations
• [00:19:14] Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce were the founders of Intel. Andy Grove joined on day 1 but is widely regarded as the most successful CEO/leader of Intel
• [00:19:33] Bill Gates was the founder-CEO of Microsoft from 1975 to 2000. Satya Nadella is the current CEO of Microsoft (since 2014). Between them, there was another CEO (remember his name?)
• [00:37:26], [00:38:00] Henry Ford once said that his customers would have asked for a faster horse carriage, and not a car; And that consumers can't always imagine leaps in innovation.
• [00:49:41] Elon Musk’s Idiot Index talks about the ratio of the final price and the cost of materials. If it’s too high, then it indicates inefficiency.
• [00:59:31] Rohit, CEO of Swiggy's food delivery business.

Companies mentioned:

• [00:11:20] Phani credits Flipkart with setting the stage for people to dream big and for venture capital firms to invest in Indian companies.
• [00:17:01], [00:52:00] DeepMind is used as an example of how breaking perceived limitations can open up new possibilities
• [00:17:14], [00:52:00] Phani says Deepseek’s R1 model opened up new possibilities. 
• [00:17:59] After Flipkart, many Indian companies raised a billion dollars, including Swiggy and PhonePe.
• [00:18:15] SaaS startup Freshworks set the tone for SaaS companies in India to think big (with its US IPO).
• [00:34:45], [01:07:12] Even OpenAI has competitors. 
• [00:44:20], [00:52:39] Toyota is the top example of the power of a good process.
• [00:44:49] Nike and Adidas are used as examples of companies with strong brand power.

Books & Other Media:

• [00:43:22], [00:43:41] Phani recommends 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy by Hamilton Helmer as a must read
• [00:27:50] Phani references Netflix’s original culture deck which had a slide with the words “integration, communication, respect, excellence” and the next slide said that these were the “values displayed in the lobby of Enron but were not what was really valued in that company.”

Concepts & Models:

• [00:16:49], [00:34:45] Four-minute mile
• [00:20:34] Principal-agent problem
• [00:48:58] First principles thinking
• [00:49:47], [00:52:47] Idiot index - Elon Musk's concept comparing the cost of materials to the final product cost
• [00:50:59], [00:51:34] MECE (Mutually Exclusive, Collectively Exhaustive)- A grouping principle for breaking down elements of a whole

Additional Links

• [00:39:49] Juhi Chawla Swiggy Ad
• [00:41:00] Gulab Jamun Uncle Ad

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